Intro Hook

Unknown: Let me just tell you, if you don’t want to make a change, don’t look, because you can’t unhear and you can’t unsee some of the things that you will as you do your due diligence. You know, I’ve seen situations escalate very quickly. Innocent situations where all of a sudden you’re you’re worried about being fired. I loved that organization, and it hurt. I mean, I’m not—I’ll just be straight up with you—some tears were shed for quite some some time ahead ahead of that decision. But the more I learned, and especially the more I was involved in some of those conversations at a leadership level, I I couldn’t escape the reality of of what it was. Culture, you hear the word culture used so much, but I will tell you that there’s culture in other places, and I was worried that I wouldn’t find the culture I was looking for. You know, I was so the relationships and the willingness to help, and then I go to a national meeting and I’m blown away. That feels more authentic, feels more G. That was quite an eye opening experience. I think it’s important to know to just tell the audience as well that, you know, it’s not the wild west out there on the independent Channel there. I was blown away. Um, people were excited for us, uh cheering us on. People were proud. They took pride that they were a part of of this, and they were were happy for us. Um, looking back, do you think there’s anything that you did, like, prior to your move—is that that helped you have a more successful transition than others can—can you talk about what your assets were prior to your firm, what they looked like after your transition, and and what they’re at today? But there is a lot of purposeful misconceptions being put, you know, into Communications to to keep Financial ADV are scared of leaving, to to to keep them in their seats. If I can help anyone talk through it, U talk about the Frozen con, I’m glad to do so because I spent three years pulling over this decision. You know, looking back, I wish I’d have done it sooner. I’m so glad I’m here, U, and I’ve been blessed to to to move my business over and have control of my business now. But if I can help anyone, I’m glad to do it because I’ve been where you are, and uh it’s not an easy decision.

Podcast Opening + Introductions

Corey: Hey everyone, thank you so much for joining the firm transitions podcast today. Today we have another great G guest, Willard Cy, just talking about his journey to independence from a a 20-year career at Edward Jones. For most of Ward’s career, he truly bled green, but believed in the direction of Edward Jones and was even heavily involved in Edward Jones leadership. But just like many others inside of Edward Jones or at other firms, sometimes the direction that the firm is going and the direction an advisor want to go can just be misaligned, make making a move necessary. So this is a an ex Edward Jones top producer story of why he left, what he’s gained by transitioning to Independence, uh or the independence model, over over a year ago. Willard, I really appreciate you hopping on the podcast today.

Willard: Hey, good morning, Corey, and it’s good to be here. Thanks for the invitation.

Corey: Yeah, absolutely. Uh, Willard, if you can just please tell us a little bit about how you got in the business and and your time and Edward Jones. I think that would be really really helpful.

Background

Willard: Sure, absolutely. U started in 2003, um, was given an opportunity by Edward Jones, um, knew nothing about the industry and like so many of us that started, uh, you know, back in that time, uh was shown the way by others and and, uh and really had opportunity to learn the business and build a a business one client at a time. And I want to just to set the record straight: I have no desire to say negative things about Edward Jones. Edward Jones as an organization is near and dear to my heart still, and and likely always will be because I was provided an opportunity and blessed to take advantage of it, and, uh, and glad, uh, so glad for that opportunity. Um, one client at a time at a time built a practice, and, um, got involved in leaders ership fairly early on and served in most of the volunteer roles. And then in 2011 was asked to be a regional leader. Um, didn’t even know I was in the running for it, to be honest with you. I had had no, uh, wasn’t pining for it if you will like so many people it feels like today. Uh, never been too good at political games. My latter years there it felt so much more that way. So, um, 2018, uh, from 2011 to 2018 served as Regional leader, and then was asked to be a field-based area leader from that point on. And, um, got to see leadership from a different perspective, got involved in different conversations, um, and and really got to to view the the organization, uh, from a totally different angle, which, uh, was enlightening. 2020, I, uh, decided that I just I needed to step away from leadership. It had been good to me, um, but things I was being asked to lead and and and things I was being asked to Champion, I just I didn’t feel like I could stand in front of a room and and and do that, U. So gracefully bowed out and thought I’d put my head down and just, uh, and move on and forget it. We’ll talk about it more later, but that that’s not me. So, um, it’s a it was a great 20-year run, and, um, super thankful for it, and, uh, and thankfully we’ve been able to build on it from there.

Corey: Yeah, for sure. I mean, that’s a lot of additional responsibility on top of building your practice as well. I mean, you you could go in in in specifics or generalities as as as as much as you want, but, you know, what were some of the things that you were seeing when you were in a leadership position that, you know, we talked about before that, you know, you really couldn’t unsee, you know?

What Changed

Willard: It’s a lot of the priorities of the firm changed. Um, we were spending tremendous time focusing on things that you wondered, does this really matter? Um, being told you can’t do things. Um, you know, I I struggled having to tell my regional leaders we couldn’t pray at summer regional meeting. I’d be real candid with you. Um, I, uh, there are other things I could point to, but, you know, it really came down for me to the realization that I wasn’t a business owner, and my entire career I had thought and behaved and act like a business owner. Um, you’re told all along invest in your business, invest in your practice, put money in your business, put time in your practice, and you you notice I’m saying your your your, and you live it every day. I I mean, this business is near and dear to my heart, okay? I never inherited any assets. I wasn’t given any assets. I’m proud of that. I’m thankful for that. U, my organic clients are are my clients. But really had the opportunity to see several instances where it was really clear that, as much as I wanted it to be my business, as much as I wanted it to be my practice, that it wasn’t. And, um, you couple that with the direction of the firm and the way it was going, um, some of the priorities that were changing—that’s what sparked me to start looking. And once I started looking seriously at making a change, when you see some of the things you can do, let me just tell you: if you don’t want to make a change, don’t look, because you can’t unhear and you can’t unsee some of the things that you will as you do your due diligence.

Corey: That makes sense. Yeah, for sure. And, you know, I me knowing the whole industry and having conversations with, um, Edward Jones advisor, sometimes, you know, it it’s the it’s it’s like this at a lot of other captive firms as well. Things are kept very insular. They don’t have the ability to have wholesaler meetings with other financial advisors or go on trips with other financial advisor. So when Edward Jones tells financial advisers that they own their business, you know, they 100% believe it, and and I hear it on the phone when we’re having, you know, conversations all the time. And in some ways they do have more control than other firms, for sure. But like you just said, Willard, like once you see things on the other side, it’s it’s really really hard to unsee. C, can you talk about some of the things that made you kind of the alarm go off on your head that, like, man, like really, I don’t really think I’m as big as a of a business owner as as I think I am?

Due Diligence + Red Flags

Willard: Of course, yes. Um, there’s several scenarios, and I won’t go into specifics, but having been in conversations, having been in the leadership role I was in, um, let’s just stop and and lay some of the potentials out: you’re one HR cross away from being on the wrong side of the equation. Uh, if you get on the wrong side of the compliance, um, you know, I’ve seen situations escalate very quickly—innocent situations where all of a sudden you’re you’re worried about being fired. As a business owner, the only people who fire me are my clients. So if I do my job and I do it well, I don’t have that hanging over my head. And everyone thinks it never happen to you, but I’ve seen too many occasions where that’s not not the case. You know, it’s a surprise. The other examples that I would give would be health related. Let’s say you have a a health event and, um, you can no longer perform your duties—someone in legal is likely making that decision based on a doctor’s prognosis and diagnosis. Um, um, you know, I’ve seen I’ve been directly directly involved in a situation that really shook me where it was very quickly made clear that that there was very little obligation to this individual who had become disabled. Um, you know, in the end actions were taken and some consideration was provided, but still nothing comparable to what the options would be if you had control of your structure, if you had a business where you had contingency planning in place and structure, uh, which is what we’re working to build. Um, you know, this Legacy that you work day in and day out to build can just evaporate very quickly when you’re an employee. You’ve thought and behaved like a business owner your entire career, but when you’re employ—when you are an employee—if any of these scenarios I’m mentioning come to pass quickly, it can be pulled away from me much more quickly. And that was that was the core of of what pushed me to to to go and and become a true business owner. One thing I didn’t mention is death, um, and Edward Jones had a fantastic plan with life insurance. So if you passed away tragically, yes, your family gets some consideration, but it’s not just money for me, uh, Court, uh, it’s it’s what I’ve built. It’s my reputation. It’s my brand. I don’t want anyone else having having all the say over what happens to that when something happens to me. I want to work and hopefully God willing I’ll be able to to put structure in place so that my brand and the sweat and tears and blood I’ve poured into this practice can live on hopefully that’s many years from now, but, um, so you know that’s sorry to ramble, but that’s that’s really what got in my head and what really, you know, pushed me to to to to look elsewhere. Because I’ll tell you, I bled green, you said it earlier. Um, I, um, I loved that organization and, you know, it’s it hurt. I mean, I’m not—I’ll just be straight up with you—some tears were shed for quite some time inead ahead of that decision. It was a very tough decision because I didn’t want to let go of that of of of what I wanted it to be. But the more I learned and especially the more I was involved in some of those conversations at a leadership level, I I couldn’t escape the reality of of what it was, if that makes sense.

Corey: No, it it it it does for sure. And, um, most of the time when I’m having conversations with, um, advisers that are looking to move from an employee firm to some sort of independent firm, it’s exactly at this point when they find out what was positioned to them is running their own business and making their own decisions, something specific winds up not coming to fruition. Whether it’s not teaming the way that they want to, or marketing the way that they want to, or communicating with their current clients the way that they want to, whether it’s, you know, wanting more discretion or offering a more robust Investments on the on on their clients accounts—that’s when they normally pick up their head and and and are having a conversation with with with somebody like myself. You you mentioned through conversations that we’ve had in the past and in the beginning of this podcast that once you took a look on the other side there were just some things that that you that that that you couldn’t unsee throughout your due diligence. Um, what were some of those things that that really excited you about the future when you were taking a look at other options?

New Platform + What Excited You

Willard: It’s a few things I would point to. I mean, first thing I’ll say is is when you’re at Jones, you you think, especially used to not as much anymore, at least it wasn’t for me, culture. You hear the word culture used so much, but I will tell you that there’s culture in other places. Um, I attended Raymond James Elevate meeting and came away just blown away at the authentic genuine culture that was in the room. Um, and this was a meeting with 4,000 people. Um, it just it felt so much like what I remembered things being, you know, in the past. Um, you know, specifically the ability to offer your clients Solutions, um, and build tailor Sol tailored solutions that fit them, that that not necessarily something that fits firm agenda. Um, many risk managed Solutions, buffered products, uh indexed products, um Structured Products—you know, things that you’re sort of taught at Jones that are evil or bad—and you you you you learn more about them and what you realize is is there are bad examples of those in the industry, but goodness, there are fantastic examples as well, just like any other investment for that matter. M, um, flexibility and and crafting the way you you you manage your accounts. Um, flexibility and and how you you build portfolios. Um, discretion and what that can allow you to do. And, um, you know, the tools—this was a big thing—I can sit down with a client now in five or 10 minutes and I can show them where they are currently, what we would suggest they do, put them on the same screen and set them side by side with any metric you can dream of, and ask them which is better in point, and let them see the why behind my recommendation. Um, I couldn’t do that before. Um, you know, so a lot of rambling again, I apologize, but it’s so many things you see. But you I was worried that I wouldn’t find the culture I was looking for. You know, I was so the relationships and the willingness to help, and then I go to a national meeting and I’m blown way—that feels more authentic, feels more gend—and the relationship that you see at Raymond James when they’re on the stage speaking to you and they make sure that that you know that that you’re their client. Yeah, uh that is such a dynamic shift. You know, I am Raymond James’s client. I’m an independent business owner, and Raymond James is doing everything they can do to arm me with every solution that I need, every tool that I that I need to do the best job that I can for my clients. And, uh, I would say that, um, that was quite an eye openening experience.

Community + Independence Concerns

Corey: That’s great. And I I think a lot of advisers have a lot of concerns when they make a move from an employee channel to Independence that Community isn’t out there. I make the argument, and I’ve seen it time and time again, that the community is out there and there are people out there that are willing to support you, you just need to go out and find it. It’s not forced upon you, if that makes sense. If you want to be left alone, you have 100% the ability to do that. But if you want to be with a group of people that are going to share ideas and support you, I think most independent advisers mindsets are, you know, there’s plenty of business out there for everyone. You know, our our Collective ideas are going to lift us all up together, and you can always pick up the phone and someone’s gonna pick up and and help you out. For my experience, I don’t I don’t know if you’ve seen the same thing.

Willard: Oh, no doubt, no doubt. It’s I would argue that I have maybe even a larger community of of peers that work collectively to, uh, to to raise each other up. And and in our organization that we have here, which we’ll talk about in in a bit, um, it’s even more prevalent and present. So absolutely, if you’re worried about having no support, U being on an island as an independent—those are seeds that have been planted subconsciously even potentially—and I can tell you, um, you need to to work to to do your due diligence to to make sure you realize that it’s it doesn’t have to be the case. You can if you wish. You know, no one’s going to chase you down and and make you engage, um, but, uh, you know, it’s that’s that’s one of those, um, things that are put out there to try to plant seeds of doubts in your head. You know, once again, Edward Jones fan—Fantastic firm—and just because, you know, a a a firm is a bad fit for you as an advisor does not necessarily mean it’s it’s it’s a bad organization. But just going back, Willard, in terms of what we were talking about, like some investment see being perceived as bad, I mean, in my opinion, I mean, some of the reasons they say that at Edward Jones, a level one two three advisor that just changed Industries and is focusing on building their business and isn’t super knowledgeable about the markets yet, you know, maybe having those blinders in place, you know, really helps you just stay laser focused on building your business business, servicing your clients, staying out of trouble. But when you get to, you know, a level five 7 8 9 10 like yourself and you kind of earn your black belt as a financial advisor, just one of the frustrations that I see is that, you know, those blinders never really have the ability to come off, and you want to provide this deeper level which which now you have the ability to do. And I know they’re making some improvements on that, but once again, it’s it’s a good idea to see what’s on the other side to compare if those, you know, enhancements are are are up to date yet.

Investment Solutions + Tools

Willard: Absolutely, you know, it you you feel like whether it’s case or not, you feel like, uh, sometimes at Jones that you’re in a situation where everything’s rounded to the lowest common denominator. So systems are in place to provide guidance to to me as a level 10 and to someone as a level new, uh, and while I certainly need some guidance, uh and value it, um, it’s a shame for solutions to not to be available just because we’re having to make sure that we don’t mess up with those newer advisers and have a legal issue. And many times that’s what the decision’s based on. Um, you know, and here’s the reality: Edward Jones will continue to evolve. They always have. They’ve always been slower, and and that’s that’s okay. In some cases they have kept people out of trouble. You know, they’ve missed some things that that others didn’t. So let’s just, you know, let’s call that reality out. Um, you know, things things that that I was really surprised by when I got over here is I had always thought that indexed annuities, for example, were were bad. And fact is is many were sold by life insurance agents to people at Stak dinners that, you know, had no licensing and no oversight and had horrible surrender penalties for for many years, and and were sold based on guarantees that didn’t exist. Um, there are some extremely attractive index Solutions out there that have no surrender penalties, that that have no downside or a lot of downside protection, big buffers, that have good upside capture rates, you know, and 100% participation rates—very client friendly, um, solutions for the client that says, “Look, I’m scared to Deb Market, but I know I need to be in a position to get some gains if the market goes up. Can you help me build some peace of mind?” Because let me remind you: peace of mind is the secret piece of the puzzle that is required to be a successful investor. If you invest your client in a manner where they can’t handle it when the market goes down, what do they do? If you can’t talk them out of it, they they get out. Well, and then they have made the worst mistake. If you can build piece of Mind into a portfolio and help remind clients when things are bad, “We did this for this reason. We’ve got this part of the portfolio position in that manner,” you probably are keeping that client from making a terrible mistake. And that’s our job. Our job is to to get into the psychology of it and to help clients succeed. And I mean, there’s there’s some fantastic buffer Solutions, index Solutions on the annuity side, uh Cory. I don’t know if I’ll ever offer another variable annuity. I really don’t. And I did a bunch of them back at Jones to to try to again find that peace of mind and add a little bit of security in so that I could remind clients when things weren’t so good. Um, but I I must say that I was very surprised at just how client friendly these Solutions are when I got here and I learned more about.

Oversight + “Not the Wild West”

Corey: That’s great to hear, and thank you for giving, uh, a little bit more detail on on on some of the things that you saw. I think that’s going to be really helpful. You know, I I’ll expand just a little more: covered calls—covered call option strategy—is as common sense of a strategy as you can get in the right situation. Um, and we have a team in home office. I can tell them what I need in just a few minutes. They’ve got it for me. I can show it to the client. Um, structured notes—the ability to get a little more creative on fixed income and offer people solutions that are tied to the market in some way but with some nice protection in place. Um, I could go on and on. You know, world class money management—goodness gracious—there’s there’s several managers that I never knew existed that, um, I’m kind of glad my clients didn’t know they existed when I was back in at Edward Jones because the performance has been fantastic. I think it’s important to know to just tell the audience as well that, you know, it’s not the wild west out there on the independent Channel. There’s very large due diligence teams at all of these firms that are heavily vetting out these different money managers, and they’re saying no plenty of times to certain in in in Investments as well. So absolutely, still still a lot of, uh, muscle behind, you know, making sure you’re providing good investment to your clients without ending up in trouble—tremendous oversight.

Willard: Absolutely, absolutely.

Client Reactions

Corey: Absolutely. So what—let’s talk about, you know, day one. You’re you’re you’re you’re ready to you’re ready to transition, you know, you have the team behind you. You hear all the time that you you need the brand in order to make a successful transition. You know, you’re only going to bring 50% of your business with you Max, the the alliances with Edward Jones, um, or insert other employee firm. You know, what were your clients’s reactions when you moved?

Willard: I was blown away. Um, people were excited for us. Um, cheering us on. We had people, you know, sending food. They knew we were working 16 hours a day or longer. Um, people were proud. They took pride that they were a part of of this, and they were happy for us. Um, you know, people were surprised. So there is a shock factor to calling someone you’ve dealt with for years and saying, “Hey, I wish I could have told you in advance, but my employment contract at Edward Jones is rigid, and I respect it, and I’m going to honor it, and therefore I couldn’t. I wish I could have.” But I’ve made a change, and I’d like to tell you the reasons why, you know, and help you understand what I’m doing. But once you got over that shock, um, they were excited. You know, people—at least our clients—and I think this is the case especially when you build an organic book, when you haven’t inherited a book especially, yeah, um, they’re very loyal to the person. It’s my belief that if a client can be handed off one or two times by The Firm, that they then do become more loyal to the brand. But but if they’re organically sourced relationships especially, or if if not, if you’ve just been with them a long time and have built that trust, people deal with people. People deal with they trust people. And thankfully, um, that showed through in our results and when we transition, because, um, they were excited to join us.

What Helped the Transition

Corey: Looking back, do you think there’s anything that you did, like, prior to your move—whether maybe it’s 5, 10 years back or or a couple years back or whatever it is—that that helped you have a more successful transition than others? We’re going to go over your numbers in in a second, but they’re they’re really really impressive.

Willard: You know, there’s a quote that says people don’t care what you know until they know that you care, and from day one we have led with with heart, and and our clients know that care. Now there’s some things we can’t control, but they know we’ll go the extra mile, we’ll stay the extra hour, we’ll do whatever it takes to within our power to to help them. And that’s not just me, that’s my team. Um, that’s that’s the most important thing to me, and I feel like that really help us potentially, corny as that sounds, that, um, people people appreciate that, and they know that there’s a lot of things out of our control sometimes. We’ll have success; sometimes we won’t when it comes to certain investment strategies. We can’t control the markets, but we can control the psychology, and we can control the reality that we care about people through our actions, through our words, uh, through our efforts. So I that’s probably not going to wow anyone, but that’s that’s what I would point to that I feel like helped us, um, a lot during our transition.

Assets / Growth

Corey: That’s great to know. Thank you. Can you talk about what your assets were prior to your firm, what they looked like after your transition, and and what they’re at today?

Willard: So we were around 370 million in assets under care, uh, when when I departed ated virgin, um, and well, I was bound and determined that I was going to work as hard as I could humanly work to to get control of that business because it’s too too sacred to me. I built it, U, over the years one at a time, uh. We hit the 100 day Mark, and on day 99 we looked at assets under care and we were at 370. Now that doesn’t mean we had 100% retention rate. Um, it’s craziest thing happened, and I was told this would happen but I didn’t believe it. Um, in the in the midst of talking to people we started finding new money. We started getting referrals. We were having to politely asked for Grace on contact in the referrals so we could keep contacting the clients because I had 12 financial advisers at Edward Jones working feverishly against me to try to convince clients that I was up to no good. Or so I could tell you some funny stories if you want to hear them about things that were said, but I lot lot of rambling to make the point that activity brings results. So we got real dialed into activity and calling people as hard as we could call them, and we started not only getting, “Hey, we want to come with you,” to “Hey, I’ve got this other account over here I didn’t tell you about,” or “Can you help my nephew,” “Can you help my coworker,” um, and thanks be to God, you know, we when you leave and you go from 370 million to zero the next day, um, it’s pretty humbling. And and no matter how much confidence you have in your ability to move your book, it scares you to death. So, um, you know, it was it was a great experience, hardest I’ve ever worked. Um, fast forward to today, uh, but that trend has continued. We’ve found so many more opportunities, um, and we’re sitting at about 475 million assets under care today. So we’ve had a good year, good 15 months here, uh at at Raymond James. And, um, I would attribute a lot of that to I have even more confidence in what I can offer my clients now. Um, I’m getting opportunities I didn’t get before. I’m seeing money that I don’t know that I would have seen before. Um, and our tools and resources that I’m using are allowing me to be so much more effective and efficient than what I was before.

Misconceptions + Pushback During Transition

Corey: So what—why do you think that is? Get getting building your practice almost a hundred million doar in a year during a transition. Um, obviously the the market has been on a tear, but that’s still an unbelievable amount of growth in in any year. I mean, when when you look back, like, why do you think that that is?

Willard: Markets have helped us some, you’re correct. Um, I feel like we’re perceived different. I mean, it’s it’s so odd to say, but I’ve had a few clients during the transition confide in me that they were thankful that I made the change. One of my largest clients told me, she said, “I wish you’d have done this years ago.” Um, I was never fond of the brand, but I was extremely loyal to you. And what I found is she had money that she had just refused to move to me until I came over here. So, um, I don’t know—perception is real—and we we get opportunities from from people that for whatever reason in this setting here we get that I don’t know I would have gotten in the other setting. In fact, I’m quite confident I would would not have got. But, uh, um, I’m excited about what we can do, and I’m excited about what I feel like our ceiling can be because I feel like I’ve raised it tremendously by becoming a business owner, by making the change.

Wrap-up

Unknown: Hey, thank you. Thank you, Willard.

Unknown: Absolutely.